題:
Cm-G-Dm-Am進入哪個鍵?
Mr. Boy
2015-02-24 17:20:31 UTC
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I'm working on a song (my first ever actually) and I love the chord sequence:

Cm - G - Dm - Am

I started off working in C-Major, but borrowed Cm from the parallel minor key C-Minor. But really, in my mind, it's in A-Minor not C-Major... however is taking a chord from the parallel minor of the associated major key even "a thing"? Cm is the only "weird" chord I want to use (I probably will use F and Em elsewhere) and while I know you can put any chord in any key if it sounds right, how would more knowledgeable theorists analyse this, and is my understanding of why Cm 'fits' in the key of A-minor reasonable?

Update: I recorded a guitar part and looped it as the "verse" to my song:

I actually played it a tone up (Dm - A - Em - Bm) as it's more natural (I'm playing Dm, Em and Bm using the Bm barre shape but with an open top E) but you can transpose your answers however you wish as long as it's clear!

您在音樂中可能做的一切都是“一件事情”-只是某些“事物”具有比其他事物更知名的名字!您感覺到什麼是該樂章的根音?
我想我的意思是,從平行的次/大調中獲取和弦是很普遍的,而且非常合適。但是我不知道Cm與A minor的鍵有什麼關係-為什麼有效-以及這種進展是否更合理地適合其他一些鍵。
很難僅從和弦序列(而不知道每個和弦演奏多少小節等)來判斷根源。您演奏/聆聽的方式是A清晰的音調中心嗎?
@Mr.Boy要添加和弦時,如果您不想顯示這些聲音,則可以使用`
 .. `代替預格式化的文本。          
@Mr.Boy您的第一首歌-您已經開始思考了-我喜歡它!當我第一次開始寫作時,我使用了所有同樣疲憊的古老嘗試和真實的進步。而且我仍然陷入那種車轍-可以這麼說。祝你好運。
@RockinCowboy一方面是“我想變得有創意”,另一方面是“我只是為了自己而做”。也許就其本身而言是一個問題-儘管對我來說,這個順序聽起來真的很憂鬱,這是我的目標。幾乎像Radiohead一樣。
-1
是@mey。但是_all_我正在使用的其他和弦均來自該鍵-F似乎不起作用,而Em起作用。 Cm-> G聲音也許是“功能”,我認為它非常生動。
-1
對我來說,鏈接到一些歌曲的粗略錄音是否對我而言是題外話,以便人們可以實際分析和弦/旋律?
@Mr.Boy在總體方案中,除非要使用符號表示法並需要編寫密鑰簽名,否則知道密鑰的含義並不是那麼重要。重要的是,這是一個非常有效的和弦序列,我認為它是並行調製,因此我計劃在我寫的一些新歌曲中嘗試該概念,以添加新的,不同的和有趣的方式(甚至可以作為對我發布的問題),感謝您發明了這個新的密碼(大寫/大寫)。
@Mr.Boy繼續並鏈接到錄音!老實說,在我們聽到旋律之前,我認為這不是真正的答案-上下文佔了相當大的比例。
並非每首歌都必須“一鍵成音”。你的模棱兩可。沒關係。
九 答案:
Shevliaskovic
2015-02-24 19:41:37 UTC
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在大範圍內,從小範圍借用具有相同名稱的和弦是常見的(反之亦然)。老實說,這真的很普遍。一些最常見的借來的和弦是V(主音),IVm和bVI。

現在,您的演奏會開始。既然您說您是C大專,那麼我們有:

  • Cm(借用)
  • G(V)
  • Dm(II)
  • Am(VI)

或者如果我們在自然的未成年人上,我們有:

  • Cm(借來的)
  • G(VII)
  • Dm(IV)
  • Am(I)

在最常見的進程中,V或VII,您會找到I或VI。並不是說您有錯,而是意外。 (我個人很喜歡這些。)

我認為,如果您使用的是 C大調,將第一和弦從大調改為小調是最合適的。 C至Cm。這通常在主和弦之後發生。

因此,如果您進行了 C-G-Cm 這樣的進度,那聽起來真的很好。這是一個常見的進步。

所以,在C大調中,你的進步是有意義的。

就我而言,用IIIm代替III是A小矮人。真的沒看過(或不記得了)。但是,就像你說的那樣,如果喜歡的話,保留它。

如果進度中沒有* C大調*和弦,而* * C小調,那不是在說這個樂曲可能是C大調嗎?通常,您沒有與(I)和弦的音調相矛盾的琴鍵,所以呢?
“所以,如果您有C-G-Cm之類的進步……”
“所以,您的升學在C大專上是有意義的。”-OP的升學是“ Cm-G-Dm-Am”。因此,我讀到您在說`Cm-G-Dm-Am`在C專業中可能有意義嗎?
如果它是在主和弦之後,那將是完全有意義的。“這通常在主和弦之後發生。”而且,我不明白為什麼有人不能使用C大調並從那裡開始使用和弦,而不是C,他們使用Cm。
聽了之後,我發現它屬於C專業。在每次騎行中,我只是在等待C大調和弦最終解決此問題:)
@AndrásHummer有趣-我實際上將其解析為`Amaj7`(當我基於Dm演奏時)!
Dom
2015-02-24 20:33:17 UTC
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I mostly agree with Shevliaskovic on his approach where A minor and C major are the two most likely, however I want to point out a few other possibilities.

If you look at the notes you use in your progression, the only note outside of the key of A minor and C major is Eb, but E is also used in your piece in the Am chord. So if you put all the notes together you would get the C Major/A Minor blues scale. It's not really a key, but there's nothing stopping you from using this scale to create chords and it will also give you a better way to improvise over your progression nothing is really borrowed.

Another way to look at it is calling it C minor, but deriving all the chords from the melodic minor ascending scale and just borrowing the E in the Am from the parallel major. This is slightly clunker then calling it just C major or A minor with a borrowed chord, but it makes slightly easier to think about in terms of soloing and melodies and in my opion explains the progression a little better then just thinking C major or A minor.

與A藍調的有趣想法。儘管經常使用藍調音階,但音符是故意​​演奏的,並不包含在基礎和弦中,而不是完全匹配。
Caleb Hines
2015-03-08 07:41:02 UTC
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There are two ways to determine what key something is in. The first is to look at the set of notes (the scale) that you're using, and find a key signature that matches. The second is to find which note chord is being "tonicized." This is done by using a rising-fourth chord progression, which acts as a V-I (dominant-tonic) relationship. Both of these methods can be circumvented or subverted: the first by using chromatic notes outside of the scale, and the second by using secondary dominants. It is worth noting that, since the major and (natural) minor scales share the same key signature, the second method (tonicization) is the best way to distinguish between them.

In your case, neither method works completely:

  • There is no rising fourth progression at all. In fact, every progression is a falling fourth (also known as a plagal cadence), except for the rising third at the end that takes us from Am back to Cm. As a result, there is no chord that is tonicized. This means that even if we could pick a scale, there's no reliable way to distinguish which mode of the scale (such as major or minor) we are using.

  • There is no single scale that contains all the notes that you use. Specifically, as Dom notes, you use both an E and an E♭.

So there is no correct answer to the question of what key this progression is in. There's simply not enough information in the progression to establish a key. That's not to say that it is atonal -- there are several keys that it could belong to, but there's not enough information to say which one it definitely is. This is called being tonally ambiguous.


As exotic as it might sound, tonally ambiguous chord progressions really aren't all that uncommon. This type of music is also often called modal, not because it is necessarily in a specific mode (e.g. Mixolydian, or Phrygian, etc...) but because it avoids (or uses sparely) the conventions of tonal music. Some common features of modal style music include: a preference for plagal progressions (falling-fourths) over dominant-tonic progressions (rising-fourths), a frequent use of borrowed chords (♭III, ♭VI, ♭VII), a disreagard for the expected chord quality (using majors instead of minors, or vice-cersa), and using the ♭seven of the key to avoid a strong dominant sound. This style is especially common in modal folk music, or blues-inspired music. It could probably be debated whether it arose by intention, or by accident due to the convenience of certain chord shapes on the guitar.

At any rate, one way that this technique can be used is to weaken the tonic during a verse, so that when a dominant-tonic progression is finally heard in the chorus it will be much more striking. Once you're ready to define the key that you're really in, you need only pick a dominant chord, and following it with a tonic.

Another way that tonally ambiguous progressions can be used is to change between two different keys. In fact, this is an excellent way to modulate gracefully without being noticed.


So which keys could this progression be used in? Many of the existing answers have already given good options for this.

If you go back to looking at the scale, you'll notice that any scale with an E♭ also has a B♭ in it. Since your progression contains a G chord (which has a B natural in) the simplest assumption is that the E♭ is the chromatic note (and thus the C minor is the borrowed chord). This would place the piece in C major/A minor (again, there's not enough information to say which).

On the other hand, you might consider that E♭ and B♭ are part of the scale, in which case the G major chord would have to be borrowed (which suggests C minor, with G being its dominant). However, this would also require the A minor being borrowed (vi instead of the usual ♭VI), which I don't think is a common borrowing.

In fact, if you restrict yourself to keys that only need to contain the roots of all four of your chords (instead of all the notes in the chord), then you could use any key which contains the notes C, D, G, and A:

By my count, these are:

  • B♭/Gm
  • C/Am
  • F/Dm
  • G/Em

As I mentioned earlier, you can make any one of these keys sound like the home key by simply playing a dominant-tonic progression in that key. As an example: if you wanted to go to Dm, simply replace the A minor chord with an A major (or better: an A7) then follow up with a D minor and you're there. You could even go to D major this way, if you wanted to.

應該注意的是,尤其是在現代音樂中,有一些不使用支配音的進行曲,仍然具有決定音調的音調。例如,齊柏林飛船(Led Zeppelin)的《好時​​光》(Good Times),《壞時光》(Bad Times)肯定有一個E調,即使占主導地位的和弦B大調僅在通過時使用,並且大部分歌曲只是E大調和D大調。僅僅因為和聲不是我們期望的和聲,並不意味著沒有補品或和弦先於補品。我確實理解該論點,但是就像我之前說過的那樣,當在旋律上放上旋律時,會出現補品
Matt L.
2015-03-04 21:58:37 UTC
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I'll tell you what my ears tell me. I'm referring to the progression that you actually played:

Dm A Em Bm

I hear this progression not in one key but I hear two tonal centers. The first is A major: iv I. The second is B minor: iv i

There are several reasons why this works and why it keeps circling seemingly without end. In both tonal centers it is a subdominant-tonic progression (no strong dominant, hence the ambiguity). Furthermore, both tonal centers are closely related (3 sharps vs 2 sharps). Also, the final chord Bm is very much related to a D major chord (relative keys), so when the progression moves back to Dm, it sounds like going from (D) major to minor, which is yet another connection of the two parts of the progression. Last, and maybe most importantly, there is a strong underlying chromatic guide tone line through this progression: F-E-G-F#(-F-etc.). This creates this endless circle effect.

當我理解您說的每句話時,理論水平僅比我的正常水平高一點,因為我不確定結論是什麼……“兩個音調中心”是否表示它是無調/無調的?如果我的比賽-採摘模式-被計分了,您將如何實現?
我花了一些錢去合唱,發現`E-Bm-A-E`甚至`E-Bm-A-B`之類的東西效果很好……這意味著我們有次要和主要版本E,可能還有B。這是否支持或削弱了您的答案?
@Mr.Boy:兩個音調中心絕對意味著它是音調的(否則,甚至沒有一個音調中心)。如果我要給它打分,我會用A專業寫它。我猜您對合唱的想法既不支持也不削弱我對合唱的感覺。它也可能在A中(好吧,然後是“支撐”……),而B和弦是次要的主導者,通向E(V)。但這只是猜測,因為我不知道您的旋律等。
這個答案最能說明所提供的音樂摘錄。兩個音調只是意味著我們從一個鍵調到另一個鍵,這一點也不罕見。
@MattL。我真的很難與誰標記為正確並授予Matt和Shevliaskovic之間的賞金有關,因為他們來自不同的角度,而且兩者似乎完全可信。我最終感覺到這更接近我的意圖了。
@Mr.Boy:謝謝,很高興知道您的意圖是我聽到的。我堅信,始終是耳朵先行,然後是理論(永遠是描述性的,永遠不能是描述性的)。
Rockin Cowboy
2015-03-06 14:13:52 UTC
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EDIT: Clarified that the logic outlined herein is best explained as parallel modulation between the MELODIC minor (not natural minor) and major key (see explanation below).

Well there does not seem to be much agreement on what key the song is in and I have seen no completely convincing arguments that put this progression solidly in any one particular key.

I have listened to the sound file and played it myself using the Cm - Am progression and the one played in the recording (Dm - Bm).

What I can say is that is a very effective piece of song composition and succeeds beautifully at conveying a very unique and distinct feeling. To me it defiantly feels more minor than major and seems to create an ambivalent feeling of uncertainty. Or a feeling like the waves coming to shore and then rolling back to sea. Very melancholy as well.

I am going to say that (aside from the simple fact that the Cm chord is not often used in the key of Cmaj) since it really feels/sounds very minor, it's difficult to reconcile it being only in C major (or any major key given 75% minor chords). So I would say that it is an arrangement that to a very good effect uses a subtle but constant back and forth parallel modulation between C melodic minor and C major.

C melodic minor contains the Cm the Gmaj and the Dm but would use an A half diminished chord (A C Eb) instead of an A minor. If we used A half diminished instead of Amin in the progression - it would fit squarely in the key of "C melodic minor" (not C natural minor or C harmonic minor).

And since the G major chord is in both the melodic minor and major parallel keys, it's difficult to tell exactly where the modulation takes place and that to me is part of what makes this progression so powerful. It's like watching waves come to shore and back - you can't really tell exactly when the wave stops coming in and starts to go back out (what point they actually reverse direction).

The ongoing back and forth parallel modulation creates a yin - yang, ebb and flow effect. Perhaps unconventional, but again very effective at conveying a certain swaying movement to the music and certain emotional feeling.

So rather than try to put it in a box and say it's definitely in this key or that, I think we should just agree that it can be described as a very effective use of parallel modulation between the melodic minor and major key of whatever tonic chord we open the song with.

I see this as a great example of a composer willing to be inventive and think outside the box. Sometimes this type of unconventional device is beyond classification. Other than to just say it's brilliant!

user16935
2015-03-09 03:36:54 UTC
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如果您要進行採樣,則您的進度並不是真正的Cm-G-Dm-Am(或其音調轉換),而是(Cm x 3)-G |。 Dm-Am-Cm-G | (重複最後一句ad lib。)。每個詞組在大和弦上都以結尾結尾,因此暫定您真正擁有的是| i-i-i-V |。 (v的v)-(ii的v)-i-V |

我建議您“暫時”說,因為勞倫斯說得很對,該段落在音調上是模棱兩可的(這與無音調是不同的)。

傾向於使C大調或小調變得有些模棱兩可的是,C在任何地方都沒有斷言是補品。相反,它是通過第一個短語的重複暗示和每個短語結尾的i-V半節奏。而且,當然,Dm和Am是C小調的替換(分別是D°和A♭),或者Cm本身是C大調的模態替換。

毫無疑問,其他解釋也是可能的,

第二個短語的開頭通過從上一個短語結尾開始的五分之一周期的延續來證明其正確性。在該短語中,您的根運動模式為向下四分之一,向上三分之一,向下四分之一,因此該短語本身分為一個短諧音序列。實際上,Dm和Am所做的是在G上形成一種顯性延長,因為它們繼續從G向外運動根,同時在C大調中保持全音階。 (將其稱為兩個鍵是不正確的-尚未完成足以建立調製的步驟。)

但是,我認為,如果您要演奏C和弦(大調或小調,它會沒關係),在G和弦之後,您會很快消除該詞組的歧義。實際上,您可能會發現某種形式的橋從C小調開始,在平坦方向上以五分之一的高度下降,然後升回G或G7,可以很好地實現此目的。 (這是假設您要消除歧義。這並不總是必要的。)

但是... ,開始理解您在這段內容中所做的工作是了解您的措辭方式,而對於Cm-,這不是 G在每個詞組的開頭但結尾。

加一個有趣的觀察。我可以看到您的論點,在以G結尾的Cm和弦進行介紹之後,進度實際上是Dm-Am-Cm-G,而不是文本指示的Cm-G-Dm-Am進度。我也聽到了,但忽略了我所聽到的,並默認為文本。我同意您不能將其放在C大調或C小調中。如果整個作品在語調上仍然模棱兩可,是否可以寫密鑰簽名?我認為它可能仍然模棱兩可,而且仍然可以正常工作,但是不能確定您是否可以為不確定該曲調是次要還是主要的作品寫一個關鍵簽名。
@RockinCowboy,很好,對於此段落(足夠長的時間來證明它),您可以將其留在C專業中,即沒有簽名,因為只需要擔心E♭。此段落之後發生的情況取決於後續段落的含糊程度以及持續的時間(例如,不值得更改四個小節的鍵簽名)。
我想說一段是C大調正直是很容易的(對我來說,所有那些次要和弦的聲音都是次要的)。但是我懷疑,儘管它有名字,但密鑰簽名並不總是定義密鑰嗎?
我並不是說這是C大調的意思,而是要說關鍵的簽名(沒有鋒利的東西)是合適的。密鑰簽名可能適用於_many_個密鑰。我用E和D編寫過作品,其中C大調很好地涵蓋了鍵的全音階集合(即,它們處於白鍵模式)。但是,唯一使它聽起來不像C大調的是Cm和弦中的E♭:C大調中的所有其他音階都是全音階的。那和缺乏節奏性的確認使它變得模棱兩可。
是的,我知道您沒有說這是C大調。這就是為什麼我要您確認密鑰簽名並不一定總是表示密鑰-您這樣做的原因。誰會unk ???
嗯,您可能會以@Patrx2的方式聽到它,但是當我錄製該示例時,在我的腦海中,我正在演奏Cm x 2作為前奏,然後按照所述跳入進度。
不。在這種情況下,男士們。
因為它以4個小節的倍數出現,所以要么將其分為2個小節,要么將其分為4個小節。鞋面將使Cm的所有3個條都聽起來像,在第四個條中有一個節奏主導,因為第5個條指示了模式的明顯變化。請注意,這是介紹的一種非常常見的模式,以占主導地位的結尾。
8odoros
2015-03-06 16:13:11 UTC
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一些觀察:

1)有趣的是,和弦基數移動了五分之一,我的意思是:

  • C +5- -> G
  • G +5-> D
  • D +5-> A

這個一件事?我不知道...

2)由於Cm-G-Dm-Am(沒有第七,sus等)的普通和弦同時包含Eb,E和F,這使得它不可能

3)用音調移調(就像OP所建議和播放的那樣)會給Dm-A-Em-Bm,幾乎是自然的A鍵。因此,如果

Dm(IV)- Am (I)-Em(V)- Bdim (II ),“只有”兩個音符會發生變化(我知道聲音非常不同)。

user6591
2015-02-24 21:42:00 UTC
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我假設這些是C Dorian模式下的和弦,這意味著您確實處於B調的調子中。

現在這兩個偶然的事件將您的G小調變為大調和提高您的A和弦的五分之一,使其成為普通的未成年人。否則,一切都會加在一起。

Costagero
2015-03-04 21:18:19 UTC
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從關聯的主鍵的平行小調中和弦是一件事情

讓我們將歌曲分解為簡單的音符:

  • Cm和弦-C,Eb,G
  • G和弦-G,B,D
  • Dm和弦-D,F,A
  • Am和弦- A,C,E

這裡唯一偶然的是Eb,但是我們也有B和E,因此可以肯定地說我們不是不是大調/ G小調。音符C,D,G和A不僅出現在一個和弦中,而且大多是小和弦,因此肯定會出現小調

Cm和弦本身俱有C和G,因此唯一的異常是Eb。該音符可以被認為是一種張力,因為它產生的不和諧會影響其在歌曲中的作用。您需要那個Eb。這也是Am調中E的美妙旋律。



該問答將自動從英語翻譯而來。原始內容可在stackexchange上找到,我們感謝它分發的cc by-sa 3.0許可。
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